Echo Zoe Radio Podcast

Brett Kunkle: Mormonism

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Brett Kunkle

For this episode of Echo Zoe Radio, I'm joined by Brett Kunkle, the Student Impact Director at Stand to Reason. He has a degree in Christian education from Biola University, has worked on graduate studies at Denver Seminary, and just received a Master's degree in Philosophy of Religion and Ethics at Talbot School of Theology. Brett speaks regularly at churches, conferences, and college campuses across the country. He has developed a groundbreaking approach to mission trips, creating a one-of-a-kind training experience that immerses participants in real-life apologetics, theology, and evangelism. He orchestrates interactive trips to Berkeley, California, and to various parts of Utah where participants are equipped to engage atheists, Mormons, university students, and other non-believers. The focus of our episode today is on Mormonism.

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An outline of the interview is as follows:

  • Stand to Reason is an organization dedicated to helping Christians understand what they believe, why they believe it, and to help articulate that graciously and intelligently to the culture around them.
  • Brett began evangelizing Mormons in college and has been taking mission trips to Utah ever since.

Separating Mormonism from orthodox Christianity

  • The two essential truths that one must hold properly to be within the realm of orthodoxy, and have salvation are proper views of the Person and Works of Jesus Christ; or as Brett puts it: a proper view of the Nature of God and the Nature of Salvation. We discuss some of the major differences between Mormonism and orthodox Christianity in these two areas.
    • Mormons will use a lot of the same terms that orthodox Christians use, but with redefined meaning.
      • By claiming that Mormons are Christian, they may mean one of the following:
        • Mormonism is just one denomination among many in Protestant Christianity
        • Mormonism is identical to Christianity, and Christianity is identical to Mormonism. In other words, only Mormons are Christians. This is the official teaching if the Mormon “church”.
    • Mormons believe that Jesus is a created being, literally the first-born of the Heavenly Father.
    • The Heavenly Father was once a man, like us, with a body of flesh and bone. He progressed to the point of becoming a god. He has his own “God the Father.” He lives on another planet with a mother goddess (or goddesses), who all produce spirit children, the first of which was Jesus.
      • “As Man is, God once was. As God is, Man may be.” – Lorenzo Snow
    • Mormons will affirm one god, but they will say this world has one god, though there are an unknown number of gods in existence, each over their own world. Thus Mormons are inherently polytheistic in their worldview. In addition, they also believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate beings, so even this world has three gods over it, rather than one God in three persons as the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity teaches.
    • Mormons say they believe in salvation by grace, but when pressed, grace has little to no role at all; rather they reach exultation by a process of works, and grace is added at the end to “make up the difference.” However, their religion ultimately requires perfection, so grace really never enters the picture. Brett calls this “the impossible gospel.”
  • The Mormons have more works of “scripture” than orthodox Christianity.
    • The Bible. However, they only use the King James version, and have a lower view of the Bible than their other works. They will say that the Bible is true only when it is interpreted correctly (though it seems the word they should is is “transmitted” rather than “interpreted) – Article of Faith #8. They cannot point out any passage of the Bible that is not interpreted (or transmitted) correctly.
    • The Book of Mormon
    • The Pearl of Great Price
    • Doctrines and Covenants.
  • We talked ever-so briefly about some of the unique believes and practices of the Mormons that Brett doesn't emphasize heavily in his evangelism such as:
    • Abstaining from alcohol and caffeine
    • Bizarre temple rituals
    • Religious undergarments
    • Polygamy
    • Joseph Smith's occult associations (not discussed, but much of the temple ritualism comes straight out of Freemasonry.)
  • Offshoots of the main Mormon church were also discussed briefly
    • The Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints (which actively practices polygamy).
    • The Reorganized Church of Latter Day Saints

Getting into witnessing to Mormons

  • Lead with John 17:3 “This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.”
  • Show them that Scripture teaches that there is only one God.
  • They may fall back on their view that the Bible is only true as it's correctly translated. Brett points out that this is effectively a claim that the Bible, or parts of it at least, is not correctly translated. He points out that once someone makes a claim in a discussion/debate, it is the duty of of the one making the claim to bear the burden of proof in regards to that claim. Ask them specifically which parts of the Bible have been mistranslated.
    • A similar set of questions is to ask if they read the Bible regularly. If they say they do, ask them which mistranslated portions of the Bible they avoid.
    • Share with them what the scripture says of itself, such as Matthew 5:18 “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.”
  • After showing that there is only one God, show that there are three distinct and divine persons; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
    • Analogies of the Trinity fall short, and end up demonstrating heretical views
      • The egg (shell, yolk, and white) demonstrates Tri-Theism. The parts of the egg can be separated, but God cannot.
      • A man (father, son, and husband) and water (liquid, steam, and ice) demonstrate modalism, since the man never holds the same relationship to all people at the same time (he is never a father to everyone, etc.) and water cannot be simultaneously liquid, steam, and ice.
    • A slight modification of James White's definition of the Trinity taken from his book “The Forgotten Trinity”: Within the one being that is God, there simultaneously exists three co-equal, co-eternal, and distinct persons; namely the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
  • We also discuss how to deal with a Mormon when he wants to give his testimony as evidence that Mormonism is the truth.
    • If a Muslim were to pray about the Koran and Muhammed, and feels that Allah is telling him that the Koran is true and Muhammed is his prophet, is this a valid testimony?
    • Will a Mormon pray to ask if murder is wrong?
      • Of course they don't, because the scripture says that murder is wrong. This question forces them back to scripture as the standard for truth, rather than a subjective testimony.
    • Do they know any Mormons who have been married in the temple, and later gotten divorced?
    • Acts 17:11 demonstrates that the proper response to any teaching is to search the scriptures to see if they are true.
    • 2 Thessalonians 2:11 says that God will send a strong delusion, further demonstrating that subjective experience isn't a reliable test of truth.
  • Using the “Tactical Approach.” Questions are key!
    • “What do you mean by that?” A useful question to get information out of the person you're talking to.
    • “How did you come to that conclusion?” Helps to illustrate why people believe what they believe. Sometimes people don't know why they hold certain beliefs, or they use faulty reasoning to come to the conclusion they do.
    • Be patient, and be willing to take time. It may take many conversations to win a Mormon to Christ.
Scriptures Referenced
  • Biblical:
    • Ephesians 2:8-9
    • John 17:3
    • Isaiah 14
    • Isaiah 43:10
    • Isaiah 44:6,8
    • Matthew 5:18
    • Matthew 3
    • Matthew 26
    • Acts 17:11
    • 2 Thessalonians 2:11
  • Mormon:
    • 1 Nephi 22:13
    • Doctrines & Covenants 1:30
    • 2 Nephi 25:23
    • Moroni 10:32
    • Articles of Faith #8
    • 1 Nephi 13:28
    • Moroni 10:4-5
Additional Resources
Recommended Books
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